It will NEVER EVER change in that region unfortunately.
War in the Middle East
Theyre shooting each other and not at us, lets call that a win
IDF: "Whoever identifies with Greta in any way in the future, in my view, is a terror supporter."
Posted by: Fast-Orange
The threat to Israel from Hamas is also far greater than the Uyghurs pose to China and there are a million other ways these are very different conflicts. I also don't think that the Chinese method of ethnic cleansing by wiping out the Uyghur culture is much better than bombing. They are doing the same in Tibet and the goal is the same either way.
first off I appreciate the acknowledgement of the double standard but I still wish to dispute some points:
I don't think the threat is that much different. Israel has one of the most well equipped armies in the world they just got caught napping whereas China doesn't nap. All Hamas or the Xinjiang separatists can ever hope for is to take pot shots that hopefully result in deaths. Both have the same MO, plan an attack and kill as many as possible until stopped. Hamas has no chance of actually conquering Israel just like the Uyghurs have no hope.of being granted independence.
They also aren't wiping out Uyghur culture. This video was shot during the last Eid festival:
https://youtube.com/shorts/oQ0gXaEg5SE?feature=shared
Remember unlike anyone else in NBR I'm friends with actual Uyghurs that I still speak with. They are not fans of extremism and are all doing pretty well. They all live in proper apartments, eat as much as they want, have running water and electricty all the time and just do regular life shit, go to work, spend time with the family, take the kids to a functioning hospital when needed, pray at the local mosque etc... still living under an authoritarian surveillance state but it's a far cry from the absolute hell that is Gaza.
For Israel, Hamas is just one aspect of the threat from Islamist terrorism. Israel also has less than 10 million people, so an attack that kills 1500 of their citizens is like China losing 150,000 in an attack. Do the Uyghurs terrorist have thousands of missiles to even try something like this? How much funding do they have? I really fail to see how Uyghur terrorism is even remotely as close to the same level of problem.
As for the ethnic cleansing, are you saying the the internments camps are fake news? https://xjdp.aspi.org.au/map/? I am happy to hear that your friends are well, but do you believe this is all fake news? When I hear reports of destroyed mosques, laws prohibiting beards, "retraining" camps, etc, I can only come to one conclusion. That China is making sure the Uyghurs are not a cohesive people for much longer and that the autonomous zone will become loyally Chinese within a few generations. It is the same in Tibet and it is also very similar to Israel's settlements. The obvious plan for both China and Israel is that once an area is occupied with a majority of your people you get to claim that land forever for your people and the borders will redraw themselves. Crimea.. same exact thing. Regardless of the country, it is a land grab based in ethnic-nationalism.
Posted by: chupacabra
Posted by: Fast-Orange
The threat to Israel from Hamas is also far greater than the Uyghurs pose to China and there are a million other ways these are very different conflicts. I also don't think that the Chinese method of ethnic cleansing by wiping out the Uyghur culture is much better than bombing. They are doing the same in Tibet and the goal is the same either way.
first off I appreciate the acknowledgement of the double standard but I still wish to dispute some points:
I don't think the threat is that much different. Israel has one of the most well equipped armies in the world they just got caught napping whereas China doesn't nap. All Hamas or the Xinjiang separatists can ever hope for is to take pot shots that hopefully result in deaths. Both have the same MO, plan an attack and kill as many as possible until stopped. Hamas has no chance of actually conquering Israel just like the Uyghurs have no hope.of being granted independence.
They also aren't wiping out Uyghur culture. This video was shot during the last Eid festival:
https://youtube.com/shorts/oQ0gXaEg5SE?feature=shared
Remember unlike anyone else in NBR I'm friends with actual Uyghurs that I still speak with. They are not fans of extremism and are all doing pretty well. They all live in proper apartments, eat as much as they want, have running water and electricty all the time and just do regular life shit, go to work, spend time with the family, take the kids to a functioning hospital when needed, pray at the local mosque etc... still living under an authoritarian surveillance state but it's a far cry from the absolute hell that is Gaza.
For Israel, Hamas is just one aspect of the threat from Islamist terrorism. Israel also has less than 10 million people, so an attack that kills 1500 of their citizens is like China losing 150,000 in an attack. Do the Uyghurs terrorist have thousands of missiles to even try something like this? How much funding do they have? I really fail to see how Uyghur terrorism is even remotely as close to the same level of problem.
As for the ethnic cleansing, are you saying the the internments camps are fake news? https://xjdp.aspi.org.au/map/? I am happy to hear that your friends are well, but do you believe this is all fake news? When I hear reports of destroyed mosques, laws prohibiting beards, "retraining" camps, etc, I can only come to one conclusion. That China is making sure the Uyghurs are not a cohesive people for much longer and that the autonomous zone will become loyally Chinese within a few generations. It is the same in Tibet and it is also very similar to Israel's settlements. The obvious plan for both China and Israel is that once an area is occupied with a majority of your people you get to claim that land forever for your people and the borders will redraw themselves. Crimea.. same exact thing. Regardless of the country, it is a land grab based in ethnic-nationalism.
I think it is mostly fake news. China is our political and economic rival so a vocational training school will get reported as a dystopian re-education center where people are tortured and women's utureses are being removed. Truth is Uyghurs have less freedom than we do and their movements are restricted in similar ways to the palestinians but they're not being tortured or sterilized by the millions while not being allowed to practice their religion plus the single biggest factor for me that puts them in a better spot than a Gazan is they aren't hungry and thirsty all the time. Living standards are in fact actually quite good.
My position isn't China is great I just think generally Uyghur people are better off being a part of China than not. I don't see much value in freedom if your living standards are third world. Our news will see a demolished mosque and report it as a cultural genocide while ignoring the new mosque being built down the street.
I don't trust any so called "democratic" government to not say bald faced lies about things going on in other countries either.
Never forget:
Last edited by: Fast-Orange on Oct. 24, 2023, 5:28 p.m., edited 2 times in total.
Posted by: Fast-Orange
Orange > Free press worldwide
If only they had unrestricted contact with that lucky Uyghur dude with the free unmonitored communication from within communist China too.
----------------------
Let's move on please
Posted by: syncro
Posted by: switch
/vid
It's always about the money (resources)
Yes, and the power. Communist party is scared shitless of losing control. Lots to lose for leaders, but also the turmoil it could cause would tear the country apart.
Last edited by: switch on Oct. 26, 2023, 1:34 a.m., edited 1 time in total.
That's does a decent job of explaining the history, albeit there is a tone of bias there. For my money the situation in Israel/Palestine is not too different from what happened in the Balkans after the breakup of Yugoslavia or anyplace where there has been a controlling power presiding over a region with different ethnic/religious groups who share some level of hate/fear for each other. When you have people who share a deep seeded distrust for each other that is based in ethnic or religious ideology it's pretty much necessary to have some sort of outside controlling force to help keep things stable.
Posted by: syncro
When you have people who share a deep seeded distrust for each other that is based in ethnic or religious ideology it's pretty much necessary to have some sort of outside controlling force to help keep things stable.
You don't say...
Posted by: syncro
That's does a decent job of explaining the history, albeit there is a tone of bias there. For my money the situation in Israel/Palestine is not too different from what happened in the Balkans after the breakup of Yugoslavia or anyplace where there has been a controlling power presiding over a region with different ethnic/religious groups who share some level of hate/fear for each other. When you have people who share a deep seeded distrust for each other that is based in ethnic or religious ideology it's pretty much necessary to have some sort of outside controlling force to help keep things stable.
Like when he refers to Palestine before the creation of Israel as vast, underdeveloped, and underpopulated? This is a common Zionist argument. That the people were not even using the land and they were small in numbers so they were doing everyone a favour by taking control of it. It's a very colonial way of thinking.
The first siege of Jerusalem was in 587 BC by the Babylonians. Beyond the mistrust based in ethnic and religious ideology, both sides also feel they have a right to the entire region based on their ancestry. It is hard to find a reasonable solution when both sides feel entitled to the same thing.
Posted by: Fast-Orange
Posted by: chupacabra
Posted by: Fast-Orange
The threat to Israel from Hamas is also far greater than the Uyghurs pose to China and there are a million other ways these are very different conflicts. I also don't think that the Chinese method of ethnic cleansing by wiping out the Uyghur culture is much better than bombing. They are doing the same in Tibet and the goal is the same either way.
first off I appreciate the acknowledgement of the double standard but I still wish to dispute some points:
I don't think the threat is that much different. Israel has one of the most well equipped armies in the world they just got caught napping whereas China doesn't nap. All Hamas or the Xinjiang separatists can ever hope for is to take pot shots that hopefully result in deaths. Both have the same MO, plan an attack and kill as many as possible until stopped. Hamas has no chance of actually conquering Israel just like the Uyghurs have no hope.of being granted independence.
They also aren't wiping out Uyghur culture. This video was shot during the last Eid festival:
https://youtube.com/shorts/oQ0gXaEg5SE?feature=shared
Remember unlike anyone else in NBR I'm friends with actual Uyghurs that I still speak with. They are not fans of extremism and are all doing pretty well. They all live in proper apartments, eat as much as they want, have running water and electricty all the time and just do regular life shit, go to work, spend time with the family, take the kids to a functioning hospital when needed, pray at the local mosque etc... still living under an authoritarian surveillance state but it's a far cry from the absolute hell that is Gaza.
For Israel, Hamas is just one aspect of the threat from Islamist terrorism. Israel also has less than 10 million people, so an attack that kills 1500 of their citizens is like China losing 150,000 in an attack. Do the Uyghurs terrorist have thousands of missiles to even try something like this? How much funding do they have? I really fail to see how Uyghur terrorism is even remotely as close to the same level of problem.
As for the ethnic cleansing, are you saying the the internments camps are fake news? https://xjdp.aspi.org.au/map/? I am happy to hear that your friends are well, but do you believe this is all fake news? When I hear reports of destroyed mosques, laws prohibiting beards, "retraining" camps, etc, I can only come to one conclusion. That China is making sure the Uyghurs are not a cohesive people for much longer and that the autonomous zone will become loyally Chinese within a few generations. It is the same in Tibet and it is also very similar to Israel's settlements. The obvious plan for both China and Israel is that once an area is occupied with a majority of your people you get to claim that land forever for your people and the borders will redraw themselves. Crimea.. same exact thing. Regardless of the country, it is a land grab based in ethnic-nationalism.
I think it is mostly fake news. China is our political and economic rival so a vocational training school will get reported as a dystopian re-education center where people are tortured and women's utureses are being removed. Truth is Uyghurs have less freedom than we do and their movements are restricted in similar ways to the palestinians but they're not being tortured or sterilized by the millions while not being allowed to practice their religion plus the single biggest factor for me that puts them in a better spot than a Gazan is they aren't hungry and thirsty all the time. Living standards are in fact actually quite good.
My position isn't China is great I just think generally Uyghur people are better off being a part of China than not. I don't see much value in freedom if your living standards are third world. Our news will see a demolished mosque and report it as a cultural genocide while ignoring the new mosque being built down the street.
I don't trust any so called "democratic" government to not say bald faced lies about things going on in other countries either.
Never forget:
I believe that freedom is more than just material well-being. Uighurs cannot give their children Islamic names or visit relatives abroad, they can't read the Quran in their own language or wear hijabs. That's not freedom. It's humiliation. And this definitely can't be legal in a normal country.
You say it's fake news, but there are maps of internment camps, satellite images showing walls, guard towers, and barbed wire fences, and there are testimonies from former detainees. Do you think all these sources are lying or exaggerating?
Similarly, I don't trust any so-called "communist" government to tell the truth about what's happening in their countries. It was evident in the USSR, and it's happening now in North Korea.They merely create an illusion of well-being for external observers, while in reality, people live in fear and constant tension. During my time in college, I conducted research using https://edubirdie.com/law-essay-writing-service for my law studies, and I understand that this is a violation of human rights. There are UN reports indicating that this can be considered international crimes against humanity, and many countries have condemned it. Perhaps only modern dictatorships with similar practices in their own countries could express support for it.
Last edited by: ImpPlant on Nov. 1, 2023, 8:04 a.m., edited 1 time in total.
I don’t think they got caught napping. I think Bibi needed a distraction from the near civil war that was occurring and he got it.
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