REVIEW | EDITORIAL
SRAM GX AXS Transmission (AKA T-Type) - The Update
Abracablahblah
I’m tired of hearing all the claims of SRAM's shifting sorcery. There is diddly, aught, zilch, zippo, quack-all, bupkis, and nix that is 'magical' about a SRAM Transmission drivetrain. Do you want to talk about arcane forces? How about a three-decade-old Acera derailleur with toothless pulley wheels and a return spring that's been flaccid from day-dot, mounted to a bent-a-f derailleur hanger made of cheese, that somehow still shifts a semi-seized chain up and down seven throwing stars that used to be cogs whilst engaging every gear ratio along the way.
Yeah, sure, that baby shifts like sh*t but that fact that it shifts at all is beyond science. And, it came on a whole bike that costs about the same as a SRAM GX Transmission rear derailleur. In 2023 dollars. If that's not bicycle spell craft, then turn me into a newt.
Just because the 'T' in T-Type doesn't stand for theurgy, doesn't mean that SRAM's less-budget-bludgeoning super-group doesn't work as advertised. It really does. The shifting is fantastic. But, even if all that engineering didn't peer up to the marketing puffery at this point it wouldn't matter.
It wouldn't be a piece about T-Type without a photo of at least one person standing on their rear derailleur. Photo: Deniz
I don't have any GX-specific derailleur-Pilates to share, sorry. But I've plugged the derailleur into plenty of trail features.
The fact is, GX Transmission is already everywhere. Everywhere. I went from only going out at night, lest I be seen sporting the unique GX derailleur and cranks, to spotting them around every corner, within days of the launch. And, regardless of anything I have to say, if you're buying a bike this year for more than 5,000 USD and less than say 8,000-9,000 USD it's likely going to be sporting this drivetrain. Above that price, your fresh rig is still going to be running T-Type, it'll just be of the XO or XX variety.
Sorry, Shimano. I'll tell you what almost every non-single-speeding, non-friction-shifting, non-Luddite mountain biker, with adequate lucre, looking for a fresh fusée tells me: cables are out, wireless is in. And when, for example, it's 'only' 600 USD more to jump from the XT version of the new Gen.6 Trek Slash 9.8 to the wireless GX AXS Transmission version of the same, even some folks who've been Shimanophiles for life are saying they expect the resale value of the Transmission bike to justify the extra purchase price.
Some of the serial bike flippers I know are saying they feel they have to buy the Transmission version of any bike they're looking at, even if they'd rather run Shimano or SRAM cable shifting, so they can be certain of an easy sale when the next-next bike calls to them. I even know a couple of longtime Rocky Mountain fanboys who are saying the brand's Shimano-only builds are shifting them to seek something else for their next rig. What enchantments are these?
Weird at first, but after a few hours the new remote control is better than SRAM's past efforts.
The shifter setup that came stock on the Arrival 152 is my second favourite AXS option.
Unlike improved geometry, tires, brakes, or suspension, servo-motor shifting isn't likely to enhance your descending capabilities, but that's not to say it won't improve your riding experience overall. I have multiple friends who love AXS shifting, both the last-generation stuff and the new T-Type, because changing gears doesn't aggravate old thumb injuries. They aren't short on cash and if SRAM made AXS Reverbs with more than 170mm of travel, that weren't substantially taller than OneUp or Wolf Tooth posts, they'd own those too.
If it weren't for those folks giving of themselves, there'd be nowhere to ride rad bikes like this We Are One Arrival A170. Thank you to everyone who digs.
Do time travelers ever go back four seconds? If I can return to the start of this section, I'd like to address the question of why now. Why now? I've ridden the GX T-Type drivetrain a fair bit but hardly enough to comment properly on the long-term durability of chains and cassettes. I don't have enough hours driving through deluges to reflect on the timeless war between wet and electronics. I've smashed the rear derailleur plenty of times, but I haven't fully stopped myself with it yet or tried to park my car on the Full Mount frame interface.
Our ever-shifting landscape now reveals that every second NSMB.com test rig has this drivetrain on it (and that the rest of them have X0 Transmission) so I'm just getting out in front before there's so much T-Type content on the website that folks start forgetting that cable shifting was a thing.
The GX cranks are not light, but they're distinctive and trouble-free.
Some folks lament the power-meter-motivated move from 3-bolt to 8-bolt chainring mounting.
But in any event, the crank-mounted bash guard system has proven excellent.
Epic Shiftplosion
In my earlier piece, Transmission For (A Bit) Less, I backed SRAM's bold power-shifting claims and, with one exception, I'll still stand by that confirmation. When I turn off my brain and prevent decades of learned experience from influencing my shifting points and shifting loads, I can get another gear, up or down the cassette stack, any time I want.
The notable exception was my one experience of epic shiftplosion, which as it turns out was a setup error - mine - but I still think bears mentioning. I was in a gear ratio I rarely use and needed to ratchet violently over a janky pile of roots. I backpedalled and then immediately thrust forward and as I did I lost the chain off my ring.
I've never experienced this sort of dropped chain situation in all my years riding Eagle drivetrains and SRAM X-Sync rings, going back to 2016. Not even riding and working on absolute sh*t-box SX setups. So, while I was totally fine physically, it was a temporary blow to my confidence in the Transmission system.
I may have poked fun at the X-Sync ring's appearance but, since my first Eagle experience in August 2016, I've not dropped a chain until now, and it was an easy fix. Photo: Dave Smith
Another ring/crank option would have been to use the SRAM XO1 carbon cranks that came as stock on the Arrival 152 SP1. Wolf Tooth makes a 3-bolt T-Type compatible 'Drop-Stop B' chainring option.
It was easy to avoid that gear for the rest of my ride and, when I arrived home, I put the Arrival in my work stand and set about diagnosing the issue which came down to a micro-adjustment that I'd missed in the initial setup. While the chain happily zipped along up and down the whole cassette range, landing solidly in each ratio, if I backpedaled in that same gear, the chain would skip. All that was required was a micro-adjust using the shifter and the issue went away.
I have two takeaways from this experience. Going forward with any T-Type drivetrain I'm working on, part of the setup will include backpedaling in all twelve ratios. Since my shiftplosion, I've experienced the same skipping during backpedaling firsthand with a customer's bike in the shop.
Also, the micro-adjust is a 0.2mm adjustment. Point two millimeters. I've worked on budget drivetrains with a few millimeters of float that stay in gear, at least in the gears with a relatively straight chainline, and based on these experiences I think it's fair to say that Transmission is absolutely intolerant of not being in perfect tolerance. It makes sense; the Full Mount masting, servo-motor precision, the way the chain walks up and down the cassette, and the massive stiffness of the whole system, exudes exactness.
Once set up correctly, even with some derailleur smashy-smashy, it was never an issue again.
The editor will note that I can't say from experience that the GX T-Type cassette won't last as long as an X0 or XX example. But, based on my past Eagle experiences, I'd still upgrade the chain and cassette to X0-level products.
Does the Flat Top chain just look clean (yes, I see the irony here) or is there a performance benefit as well? SRAM says they allow for longer wearing, larger diameter rollers.
As Seen On NSMB
Transmission is everywhere on the trail, and here at NSMB. Though I'll admit it's mostly the higher-end versions at this point, with many bikes clocking in around 5K USD with GX T-Type, I think it's only a matter of time before we're seeing Transmission GX spec on many testers.
I don't love it. Transmission. At any level. I'm not into the remote-feeling shifting of the new controller and I still actually find myself preferring it to the old one. I don't go for the servo-motor noise even if sometimes it makes me laugh thinking about the Knights Who Say Ni. I need to grab five gears - Ni, Ni, Ni, Ni, Ni - "We want, a shrubbery!"
I find it totally soulless to work on compared to the art of dialing in a top-end cable-actuated drivetrain from any brand. I'm told that makes me a privileged gatekeeper trying to preserve the value of my hard-earned limit-screw-turning, derailleur hanger truing, and internal cable routing knowledge. What can you do?
Oh, alright, so Tim's tester is Transmission XX... (Photo: Deniz)
But I swear the Arrival is just the tip of the spear.
As I noted at the top, it really doesn't matter how I feel about it. More so than usual. If Shimano's Deore M6100, or potentially M5130, is (almost) the only drivetrain that matters for folks trying to min-max their mountain bike experience, then SRAM's T-Type is (probably) the most logical choice for folks buying more expensive rigs featuring GX-level parts on up.
It's relatively easy to set up, it's robust, and the shifting under pedaling loads is actually as advertised. Push harder on the pedals and the drivetrain meshes harder into gear. As I noted in my first impressions piece, it's easy to keep the batteries charged, and I've still never run out of juice. Your friends think it is cooler than cables, bikes are much easier to sell and resell even compared to the first-gen AXS, and spare components are readily available. And yet, if I was travelling with my bike, I'd take both spare batteries and spare chargers with me.
I expect the rear battery loading will eventually trickle up to the X0, XX, and XX-SL T-Type derailleurs.
It's a better layout in terms of protecting the battery and appearance.
Tool-free cage swapping is a neat feature since that's the most likely part of the derailleur to meet an early demise.
The GX T-Type rear derailleur is also compatible with the more expensive all-aluminum X0, XX, or XX-SL cages.
I wouldn't say no to reviewing a bike because it had a Transmission drivetrain installed, but for me, it's not a selling feature. I like single-speeds and friction-thumb-shifters, so anyone aware of that will be unsurprised by this conclusion. I'm still not sure why I was ever asked to test the group.
All that aside, whether you're GX Transmission curious, GX Transmission passionate, or just GX Transmission rational, if you're down with battery-powered shifting and have the cash there are diddly, aught, zilch, zippo, quack-all, bupkis, and nix reasons not to buy it. Or its higher-priced siblings. But they aren't magical.
Everything Transmission starts here, and for a variety of different takes on the wireless AXS update, keep an eye on NSMB as the T-Type review bikes continue to arrive.
Height - Steve Buscemi-ish
Wait - Patiently
Ape Index - T-Rex
Age - The same as DOS
Favourite Trail(s) every week - Pipeline (thank you Ken!) to Lower Crippler (thank you Andy!)
Favourite Song(s) this week - I'm Your Man. Nick Cave (covering Leonard Cohen)
Favourite Colour - Cosmic Lilac
Bar Width - It depends
Reach & Stack & ETT - It depends
Crank Length - 175mm except when it's 170mm
Wheel Size - Hot For Mullets
Comments
handsomedan
6 months, 2 weeks ago
I have a friend who always says drivetrains are binary. They either work or don’t work. So spend as little as possible on one and use the money for something else.
I’ve adjusted my 11 speed xt drivetrain twice in four years and it is on its third chain. I have spare shifters, derailleurs, chains and cassettes on hand just in case.
Interesting to read about this, but why would I ever change? Is the day coming when cable routing is no longer on nice frames?
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Andrew Major
6 months, 2 weeks ago
“Interesting to read about this, but why would I ever change? Is the day coming when cable routing is no longer on nice frames?”
If the question is “will there be some frames with no provisions for cable routing for shifting and dropper posts?” The answer is probably yes. Through-the-headset cable routing seems to allude to it.
DIY routing aside, it’ll be interesting to see once Shimano’s next-gen Di2-mountain stuff comes to market if a bunch of top-end frames are wireless-specific.
As to why would you change - I’ve got nothing. Either you see, read about, or try T-Type and think ‘yep, that’s for me’ or you don’t. Lots of places I’d spend money on my bike instead.
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Kenny
6 months, 2 weeks ago
> Lots of places I’d spend money on my bike instead
This is where I'm at. My old X01 eagle bits from 2017 are disintegrating.
Amortized over 6 years it's not terrible, and they've served me well, but still, the replacement cost makes me choke a little, and having worn out GX stuff in the same time period, it's not actually cheaper in the long run, IME.
So, I bought a microspline driver for my vault hub today, as it also seems xt/lx stuff can be found at 25-35% off pretty commonly at the moment.
That means I can replace derailleur/cassette/chain/shifter for less than half, even closer to a third, of the cost. That is not insignificant.
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Andrew Major
6 months, 2 weeks ago
For folks sticking with cable, I’ve been generally/genuinely recommending XT LinkGlide over the HG+ stuff. It just runs.
The higher end Eagle cable stuff (and I think even more so the 11-spd 1x stuff) like X0 and XX1 just runs and runs. Worth checking for close outs and lightly used examples if you’re into SRAM and want to stay on cable actuators.
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MTBrent
6 months, 2 weeks ago
When my current and spare Zee drivetrains (ever?) die, LinkGlide will be going in the shopping cart. I'm basing that decision solely on your comments and reviews!
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Andrew Major
6 months, 2 weeks ago
Normally this would make me uncomfortable - I don’t like spending other peoples’ money - but in this case I’m very confident in M8130 and eagerly awaiting the chance to ride M5130 and U6000 CUES.
On that note, I would still love to see SRAM put effort into competing budget-friendlier drivetrains that aren’t shit and I’ll stand by the suggestion in my first T-Type piece that now that it’s live, everyone who works there should be cursed to ride SX until they fix it.
Steven Hambleton
6 months, 2 weeks ago
Replying to your SX comment - maybe I'm lucky but my son has SX and it's actually been pretty decent. Perhaps it's because he haven't been spoiled with GX or above but he has no complaints and a little cable adjustment aside, it shifts well.
That said, I'd like to get him a GX shifter at some point :)
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Niels van Kampenhout
6 months, 2 weeks ago
I have GX Eagle that came on a 2020 bike and it has worked fine but the derailleur is so beaten up now that I can't get it to run perfectly anymore (even with an X01 b-bolt). Several people suggested I get an X01 as a replacement since it's supposed to be more durable but instead I got a Deore M6100 derailleur for next to nothing. According to youtube it's even supposed to work with the SRAM shifter, we'll see.
Like some others who have commented, drivetrains really don't interest me much, they either work or don't.
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Andrew Major
6 months, 2 weeks ago
12spd SRAM and Shimano shifters/derailleurs have limited compatibility in a pinch, but I’ve yet to meet anyone who’s happy with the matchup.
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Niels van Kampenhout
6 months, 2 weeks ago
Yes I'd be surprised if it works perfectly but worst case I'll get a Shimano shifter and end up with the only drivetrain that matters :)
Andrew Major
6 months, 2 weeks ago
@Niels, HG+ friction shifting works great too! Not as good as LinkGlide but, still excellent.
https://nsmb.com/articles/shimano-inadvertently-upgrades-friction-shifting/
Go under the bar and no one will ever notice that you’re not doing mountain bikes right.
Jerry Willows
6 months, 2 weeks ago
I have a XT derailleur on a SRAM 12sd XO drivetrain... works great. Shimano derailleurs are cheaper and have a stronger and rebuildable clutch.
@andrew... pretty sure RMB will be spec'ing SRAM for 2024 based on what I've seen and heard. Silly not to.
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Andrew Major
6 months, 2 weeks ago
The shifter is SRAM but the derailleur is Shimano?
Cam McRae
6 months, 2 weeks ago
My only critique of Shimano derailleurs is that they can't take a punch they way GX or higher SRAM derailleurs can. I have savaged SRAM derailleurs and had them either be serviceable or unharmed while I have destroyed Shimano derailleurs GRA.
Jerry Willows
6 months, 2 weeks ago
@andrew: shifter/cassette is SRAM
@cam: no issues in over 3 years with an XT derailleur with me.
Another issue with SRAM derailleurs is that after time, the clutch weakens. The AXS derailleurs have less clutch tension than the cable counterparts as well. How much do an AXS derailleur cost?
Next bike will probably have AXS just due to options offered...
Mammal
6 months, 2 weeks ago
I ran an NX 12spd shifter and cassette with SLX derailleur, and it worked well. Performance seemed exactly the same when I eventually installed an SLX shifter on the same setup.
Niels van Kampenhout
6 months, 2 weeks ago
That's encouraging, sounds like my planned Deagleore setup has a good chance of working.
Andrew Major
6 months, 2 weeks ago
Awesome! Going to try this for myself. And if it works one way it should work equally well the other way.
hongeorge
6 months, 2 weeks ago
Not having to drill holes, route cables, design cable routing - all of this saves money, either in manufacture or assembly time/hassle. Manufacturers love it.
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Andrew Major
6 months, 2 weeks ago
Yes, but.
This will be true when Shimano has their next gen Di2 mountain out as well. I don’t think any bike manufacturer wants to get stuck making bikes that have a single possible drivetrain provider. Covid supply and pricing lessons aren’t that long ago.
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Pete Roggeman
6 months, 2 weeks ago
Very true. Also, GX AXS isn't cheap, so for any frame intended to have trim levels at a more reasonable price, cables are still necessary. I'm sure there will be occasional frame releases without routing, but it'll be few and far between for a while. The sky isn't falling just yet.
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Andrew Major
6 months, 2 weeks ago
I don’t think the sky is falling at all, it’s just, as with so many products - clothing, food, cars, appliances, etc - the middle of the market is eroding and companies are seeing it.
It’s anecdotal, and very localized, yes, but from my own conversations with a variety of folks looking at new rigs (me or e) I can’t help but wonder how many sales a company like Trek, to use my previous example, would lose if they cut SKUs to carve out all the middle ground between M6120 and GX T-Type (No SLX, XT, or GX-cable).
Take the new Slash. Do an aluminum frame M6120 model, a carbon frame GX T-Type model, and then a small batch of aspirational carbon bikes loaded up X0 or XX and all the trimmings. Sell frames to cover folks that want something else. Maybe the markets not ready for that level of curation.
Steven Hambleton
6 months, 2 weeks ago
@Andrew - or just put Deore across the range (with an XT shifter) but load up on fantastic wheels, tyres and suspension. Heck, I'd be happy with Microshift Advent X if it meant my bike came with quality wheels or Fox Performance Elite suspension.
Timer
6 months, 2 weeks ago
@Andrew
I’m pretty sure thats a local or continental phenomenon. Around here, I mostly see mid level trim bikes on the trails. Full Gucci builds have become quite rare compared with a ago when prices were half of what they are now.
That’s especially true for run-of-the-mill bikes like Trek. Full bling kit is more often found on exotic frames like Actofive or Nicolai.
Andrew Major
6 months, 2 weeks ago
@Steve, definitely the shifter upgrade is the most notable with most drivetrains.
Andrew Major
6 months, 2 weeks ago
@Timer, I didn't mean to say that there are way more Gucci-level bikes on the trails proportionally, if anything lately I've been noticing more hardtails and budget-friendlier bikes. This could be a testament to how good a Deore bike with Select suspension is, or, maybe more likely, it could be down to the fact that 50% of Canadian homeowners are worried about making mortgage payments.
It just seems - again anecdotally - on the trail and in the shop that bikes from the last couple of years seem to either be higher-end (and the Gucci bikes keep getting more Gucci) or lower-end where I used to see a lot of XT/GX bikes with mid-level suspension.
There's all sorts of things that could bias my impression from the off-peak times I typically ride, the trails I ride (blue trails with my kid / old janky black trails by myself) and certainly the local class divisions.
I'd love to see the global sales numbers from a company like Specialized or Trek to confirm or negate that impression.
Cr4w
6 months, 2 weeks ago
To upgrade in one shot is easily the value of a couple of great road trips. But if you can squeeze a few more years out of your 11s by then if you're a mid- to upper- level bike buyer it will probably be the only choice on completes so you'll have to decide then if you're going to buy in or not. For a lot of us on XT+ bikes I think we'll keep running through our stockpiles of stuff and postpone deciding.
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Andrew Major
6 months, 2 weeks ago
The vast majority of these T-Type drivetrains will be sold with new complete bikes and well over 50% of them will be eMTBs. So folks will upgrade at NBT (new bike time).
Within two model years Shimano’s new Di2 wireless or semi-wired options will ship as well so eventually there will be at least be a duopoly of choice.
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MTBrent
6 months, 2 weeks ago
I recently took a quick ride on a friend's new GX Transmission-equipped Stumpy and admittedly thought is was well executed.
Then I got back on my Zee 10-spd-equipped Orange and all was right with the world.
We rode the same trails having the same laughs, but with vastly different wallet weights.
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Andrew Major
6 months, 2 weeks ago
The drivetrains certainly match the bikes!
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Andrew Major
6 months, 2 weeks ago
I thought this was an interesting comment from Cotic Bikes about their Jeht and the lack of a UDH, and therefore T-Type option, that's inline with with drivetrains matching bikes:
https://www.pinkbike.com/news/cotic-launch-jeht-gen2-trail-bike.html
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MTBrent
6 months, 1 week ago
I like the cut of Cotic's jib.
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Cooper Quinn
6 months, 2 weeks ago
"I have a friend who always says drivetrains are binary. They either work or don’t work."
Boy. That is just not a statement I agree with in any way, hahahhahha.
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93EXCivic
6 months, 2 weeks ago
Is your friend me? That is my thoughts on drivetrain is as long as it goes into the next gear, is cheap and reliable and gives me decent range. That is all I care about. I have ridden nicer drivetrains but they just don't seem worth the money to me. I would rather spend my money on a totally worth boutique custom set of handlebars for some reason.
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roil
6 months, 2 weeks ago
Can we talk about how Sram screws everyone with their ridiculously expensive tiered product lines?*
The transmission lineup is just a marketing exercise designed to further raise prices on consumers. I mean, one of the biggest selling points is that you can now stand on your derailleur!
Sram now offers 6 tiers of drivetrain (XX SL, XX, XO, GX, NX, SX) and they are the leading component supplier to OEMs. The XX SL transmission costs $2,700 USD! While I doubt I'll see many XX SL on trail, it's really designed as a price anchor for the rest of the lineup.
Wonder why a mountain bike costs more than dirt bike? It's because we are suckers for shiny sh^t and don't realize the game. Sure, it's "good business" some will say as SRAM is just extracting the most from every buyer based on their disposable income, but if you've ever complained about the price of a mountain bike, this is the reason why.
*For the record, this is the bike industry in a nutshell but SRAM drivetrains are the most blatant offender.
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Andrew Major
6 months, 2 weeks ago
I think, going back to my first piece on T-Type, that Transmission makes all the sense to riders on full-power eMTBs, especially less experienced riders, and that’s why compared to AXS or cable - just looking at SRAM vs. SRAM - it seems like mainly marketing to me-bike riders who’ve learned good shifting habits.
We just don’t create the Turbo-mode super hero shifts that rip drivetrains apart. I mean, without meaning to throw out all my work above, this drivetrain really should have been tested on an e-bike in terms of under-load shifting claims.
Economy of scale and product line turnover matters too, but yeah, weight savings and added features are the ways to generate more margin dollars as folks justify upgrades from the base product with most spending decisions.
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Jerry Willows
6 months, 2 weeks ago
and the AXS just keeps increasing the weight of a bike... still waiting for a 200mm dropper and proper NX/SX drivetrain from SRAM.
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roil
6 months, 2 weeks ago
A proper NX/SX drivetrain will never happen. It creates an artificial price floor and allows Sram to justify higher prices for decent product.
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roil
6 months, 2 weeks ago
Andrew, my comments are more directed at Sram than you. I respect you tremendously and don't want you to feel attacked by my comments.
"I think, going back to my first piece on T-Type, that Transmission makes all the sense to riders on full-power eMTBs, especially less experienced riders, and that’s why compared to AXS or cable - just looking at SRAM vs. SRAM - it seems like mainly marketing to me-bike riders who’ve learned good shifting habits."
At what point are riders responsible for learning how to use the bike? Should we expect training wheels on these ebikes as well?
"Economy of scale and product line turnover matters too, but yeah, weight savings and added features are the ways to generate more margin dollars as folks justify upgrades from the base product with most spending decisions__."
Economies of scale: It costs a lot of money for Sram to design, test, manufacture, and support 6 different transmission/derailleurs. Bike brands are complicit in this racket because they get to upcharge you for "better specs" builds.
Sram and Shimano are the only brands with more than 2 tiers of product. This also allows other brands to offer their products at higher prices (brake and suspension brands).
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Andrew Major
6 months, 2 weeks ago
Oh, I didn’t feel targeted at all! Appreciate the conversation.
Certainly SKU count and relatively short model lives affect economy of scale as well. If companies make more units of less different components for more years that saves money.
“At what point are riders responsible for learning how to use the bike?”
This sounds like something I would say. But, as noted various places, I’m a privileged gatekeeper of the mountain biking experience.
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Niels van Kampenhout
6 months, 2 weeks ago
"The transmission lineup is just a marketing exercise designed to further raise prices on consumers."
Hasn't this been the case for most "improvements" introduced by the bike industry in the last few years?
I mean, the original (mechanical) Eagle didn't really add much to Sram's 1x11 either. Instead of the big 50 or 52 cog you can just as easily run 1x11 with a smaller chainring (and have a cheaper, lighter, and less complex setup).
I remember an article on the other site, perhaps 10 years ago or so. A number of industry folks was asked what they thought would be the most significant change for mountain bikes in the next years. Most came up with some new tech but one (I think someone from Santa Cruz) said something along the lines of: all those broke 20-something dirtbags that were our original customers are turning into middle-aged folks with careers and money to spend. I think that's what we're seeing now, the bike industry is simply leveraging hyper consumerism like many other industries do.
On the bright side there is still lots of basic and reasonably affordable stuff available and it's good stuff too as most of the real improvements (when improvements were still real) have trickled down to lower price levels.
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Cooper Quinn
6 months, 2 weeks ago
"Instead of the big 50 or 52 cog you can just as easily run 1x11"
No. You're either losing gear range, or gear resolution. There are situations where the loss of one or the other is fine, but pretending both options are equivalent just isn't true.
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Andrew Major
6 months, 2 weeks ago
Gear resolution is the one that’s always weird to me when it comes to mountain biking. Road or gravel sure, tight ratios are the right ratios. But for mountain biking just push a bit harder, stand, or sit and spin the easier gear.
The future doesn’t have fewer but it could and folks would have lighter better lasting drivetrains with straighter chain lines.
Maybe it comes down to most test rides being of the parking lot variety?
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Cooper Quinn
6 months, 2 weeks ago
"But for mountain biking just push a bit harder, stand, or sit and spin the easier gear."
Spoken like a true single speeder!
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Pete Roggeman
6 months, 2 weeks ago
On the shore or that type of riding, yes. But using my experience at BCBR (in and around Penticton and Apex Mtn) as an example, gear resolution matters. I wasn't even 'racing' but having intricate choices between gears was very nice on the legs and lungs in the middle of 45-minute climbs. I think this is highly user and location dependent.
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Niels van Kampenhout
6 months, 2 weeks ago
You say "loss" but Eagle added a gear to 1x11. Were you missing that gear before Eagle? I wasn't.
I didn't say both options are equivalent, just that one doesn't add much real value over the other.
YMMV if you use the 10t cog on your Eagle drivetrain a lot.
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Cooper Quinn
6 months, 2 weeks ago
"I didn't say both options are equivalent," but you did say, "Instead of the big 50 or 52 cog you can just as easily run 1x11 with a smaller chainring (and have a cheaper, lighter, and less complex setup)."
I mean, sure. You could also just as easily run a single gear.
1x11 has less range. If you think that's a loss or not - whether nor not you missed it prior to 1x12 - is up to you. I'd also wager $1000 you can find a pile of reviews of early 1x setups lamenting the loss of gear range, resolution, or both.
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Andrew Major
6 months, 2 weeks ago
As a total aside, I love to listen to bike nerds argue about whether the simplicity of a wide-range 1x drivetrain or the overall gear spread of a 2x drivetrain is a better option for newer riders (with some budget hardtails still featuring front derailleurs).
I feel this ouroboros will be incomplete until SRAM releases their new crank-housed front derailleur system*, with the promise of wider gear ranges and faster more efficient shifting in short-and-steep uphill and downhill transitions.
*Only for AXS-equipped road, gravel, and XC bikes over the 10K+ price point.
Kenny
6 months, 2 weeks ago
I say this also as a continuation of the discussion about the cassette with a 39t "granny gear", but the other thing is, you can't just keep shrinking the chain ring indefinitely.
Half because smaller than 26 simply doesn't exist and half because the suspension action gets wierd on many bikes.
I still think that for the majority of people of average fitness that want to ride all of the things in the sea to sky (especially if it includes chilcotins, lord of the squirrels, Blackcomb etc), these gear ratios being thrown around don't make sense unless you're happy doing a lot of pushing.
Maybe I'm in denial about just how fat I am hahaha. Really though, 29ers with short cranks need more gears than this unless they live somewhere flat. My mullet with 175 cranks I can push a 32, but full 29 with 165, I need 28 for big days in real mountains. I don't need the top end - when going north of 30km/hr in the forest, I am not trying to pedal. But, even at 28t the pedallong kinematics get odd and chainring lifespan drops.
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Andrew Major
6 months, 2 weeks ago
“Really though, 29ers with short cranks need more gears than this…”
This is a fair comment. I don’t ride anything shorter than 170mm arms but certainly I’d agree that to create forward momentum on a meat-bike with shorty cranks and a SSSTA spinning a higher cadence is the winning strategy and this requires a lower gear range when the going gets steep.
I’m commenting on gearing from the perspective of a diesel engine pushing 175mm (or sometimes 170mm) cranks from a slacker effective saddle position than is trendy.
I also don’t mind pushing when the days are long or the climbs are epic.
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roil
6 months, 2 weeks ago
"I say this also as a continuation of the discussion about the cassette with a 39t "granny gear", but the other thing is, you can't just keep shrinking the chain ring indefinitely."
Chainring size doesn't matter if you're on a high pivot idler bike.
I've got 152 cranks with a 30 chainring on a 29er for long climbs in Socal. No issues.
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93EXCivic
6 months, 2 weeks ago
I don't get this part. "Really though, 29ers with short cranks need more gears than this unless they live somewhere flat. My mullet with 175 cranks I can push a 32, but full 29 with 165, I need 28 for big days in real mountains."
When I swapped from 175mm to 165mm cranks, I didn't feel any difference in gearing.
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Andy Eunson
6 months, 2 weeks ago
This video came up the other day. https://youtu.be/BS9ugdl1FZc?si=VBIY96A01q4IN7dz
Other reasons for why there does not seem to be a cost difference between a motorbike and mountainbike.
You make good points of course. It stands to reason that a complex machine should cost more. But maybe not.
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BarryW
6 months, 2 weeks ago
The thing that always follows as a ridiculous logical leap is that because mtb pros is the same gear, and motorcycle pros don't, that mtb equipment should cost more.
Well if pros run the same fork, built to the same tolerances as me, and built to the same tolerances as a way, way cheaper motorcycle fork, why does it cost more?
We act like there is some magic sauce that justifies the doubling of price in suspension for tiny manufacturing differences that quite literally cost a buck or two. Take a Yari, how much less is that to manufacturer than a Lyric Ultimate? Anyone gonna claim it's more than $20? And yet the price at retail doubles. The bicycle world just has a lot more sheeple than the motorcycle world methinks.
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TristanC
6 months, 2 weeks ago
> I don't go for the servo-motor noise even if sometimes it makes me laugh thinking about the Knights Who Say Ni.
I ride gravel with a couple folks who have robot derailleurs and they make a subtle high pitched noise all the time, as far as I can tell. Drives me crazy. It's similar to the noise CRT TVs make if they're on but have no signal input.
Maybe it's just head trauma, no one else can hear it.
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Andrew Major
6 months, 2 weeks ago
I cannot hear anything from T-Type or previous gen AXS except the KWSN every shift.
I know people who are very sensitive to passive noises I can’t hear though, so you may no be alone - just rare.
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Kos
6 months, 2 weeks ago
" I backpedalled and then immediately thrust forward and as I did I lost the chain off my ring."
That will teach you to rely on that ratchet-pedaling crutch! :-)
Nice perspective. In the end, Transmission, a bit like e-bikes, seems unstoppable. Not a train I'm looking to jump in front of.
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Andrew Major
6 months, 2 weeks ago
“That will teach you to rely on that ratchet-pedaling crutch! :-)”
Hahahaha. I love this so much.
One of my friends told me it’s really the Hydra hub’s fault because with his 18t DT-350 the hub wouldn’t have engaged while the drivetrain was out of gear!
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danithemechanic
6 months, 2 weeks ago
I'm always glad you take all this time to write such articles just to tell people these new-new things are not made of dreams and not necessary for actually riding your bike.
These are the advice i share to customers and friends as they pose the questions: "What do you think of...? Should i buy...? Do i need...to keep living a meaningful existence?"
I'm about to switch to Microshift in the near future because yes, the future holds less gears. Now that i've (kinda) settled for a wheel size, a geometry, and low gears numbers, i need to refine my shifting so it will just work. The way Sram 11spd worked until i went past a 46t cog, but with less gears.
I'll probably try Sram EX1 at first, used, and then Microshift 10.
I'll be really curious to read your takes on the latest Microshift offerings, mtb and gravel.
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Andrew Major
6 months, 2 weeks ago
I think the biggest challenges with Micro Shift are three fold. Brand name recognition, obviously. It usually ships on kids bikes where the shifting action is heavy for their thumbs (especially with cheap cable housing). And, Shimano CUES is going to eat its lunch when it finally starts shipping.
That said, I’m always keen to try different stuff, especially budget-friendlier products. I pitched/would have been keen to have both my kid and I test it, but she’s now running a combo of 2005 XO 9-spd shifter / Zee derailleur that is ridiculously good and doesn’t have a monetary perspective so it would just be me now.
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danithemechanic
6 months, 2 weeks ago
It'll be really interesting to read your pieces on Microshift, Trp, Box, ...
The options are out there these days.
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Andrew Major
6 months, 2 weeks ago
I’d love to review the TRP drivetrain as well as MicroShift. BOX I’ve had lots of experience. I don’t recommend it at any level but it’s okay. I’d be keen to try a next generation product if they keep developing it. I’m into the fewer gears nine-is-fine setup.
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handsomedan
6 months, 2 weeks ago
Running microshift on my son’s bike. It is great and I would happily have it on my bike. Lever action is really nice. Easy to adjust / set-up and super affordable.
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Adrian Bostock
6 months, 2 weeks ago
I wore out 2 microshift advent X derailleurs this summer with no impact, just riding. the clutch mechanism wore out. It was a low cost gamble when I needed a drivetrain this spring and wanted more gears then what I was running. It did not work out. but I when down the internet rabbit hole and found a Shimano m5100 drive train and it’s been exactly what I was looking for. more gears, low maintenance, affordable.
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Andrew Major
6 months, 2 weeks ago
I can’t wait to get my hands on 5130 LinkGlide. Extrapolating from XT M8130, it’s going to be awesome. Chunky, yes, but awesome.
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93EXCivic
6 months, 2 weeks ago
My Advent (not X) has been going from before the pandemic on both my gravel bike and my mountain bike with basically no issues. Just once when I messed up bunny hopping a curb and landed on the derauiller on my gravel bike.
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Sean_D
6 months, 2 weeks ago
If I had a UDH compatible frame, then I'd be begging SRAM for a cable operated derailleur that would be similarly mounted to the frame. With well routed cable and housing, the extra rigid platform could provide super smooth and consistent shifting. Every Transmission article has stated that SRAM doesn't plan to do this, but I think that there'd be a market for it.
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Andrew Major
6 months, 2 weeks ago
I enjoyed your comment too much. I know it’s not what you meant but the idea of a Full Mount mast made from SX and NX level materials was too much. If ever there were derailleurs that need replaceable hangers made of cheese.
Totally agree it would be nice to see a higher end cable drivetrain that takes advantage of the Transmission design benefits.
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daithi
6 months, 2 weeks ago
Hear hear!
I actually think they're very visually pleasing. The rigidity benefit speaks for itself. But I fear change...
And no matter how easy it is to keep on top of charging... I just can't live with the idea that I one day might not be able to go biking because I forgot to plug it in. I forget to charge my phone at least once a week. I can't be trusted.
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Marty Zaleski
6 months, 2 weeks ago
Transmission and AXS are solutions to problems nobody has.
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Karl Fitzpatrick
6 months, 2 weeks ago
I have to admit, if there's only one reason I enjoyed this article (there were at least 3 😁) it was the KWSN bit.
Very well done and now all I'll think of when riding behind my friends who have drunk the kool-aid.
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Andrew Major
6 months, 2 weeks ago
Loudly saying “NI” perfectly timed with your friend’s shifts is… an experience.
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MTB_THETOWN
6 months, 2 weeks ago
I have only had a few minutes to pedal around on it and would like more time to get a full feel for it, but off the bat I disliked it. I also rode AXS on a test bike for a day and didn't like that either. After decades on mountain bikes, I like the being able to feel my bike shift through the cable. I also like being able to grab multiple gears with one push through several clicks. I run Shimano chains and cassettes with SRAM cable shifters, derailleurs and cranks, with a wolftooth chainring to make them get along. I get the smoother shifting of hyperglide plus with the more positive clicks of sram shifting. Nothing else I've tried feels as nice. SRAM cassettes feel clunky, Shimano shifters feel vague, and electronic shifting just doesn't feel like anything at all.
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Andrew Major
6 months, 2 weeks ago
I found cable-to-AXS and easier learning curve than AXS-to-T-Type in terms of getting the most out of the drivetrain. There’s definitely a learning curve.
But yeah, the wireless shifting is lightest-action so for us folks who prefer a more positive feel it’s a bigger step to on board. Especially with the new remote that stops pretending to be a mechanical shifter.
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ackshunW
6 months, 2 weeks ago
Thank you Andrew for remaining a voice of skepticism in the face of ever-escalating cost and technology. Truly priceless.
I’m fairly battery-averse, so this drivetrain is not for me. I could see landing on it 10 years in the future but will try to stay with cables for as long as it’s practical. (Who am I kidding, I’ll drag it out long beyond practicality).
But my comment I came on to make was- — — that closeup of the cassette, that wispy ethereal second cog?? I can hardly believe my eyes how little metal is there. As an armchair engineer with decades of experience, that looks so incredibly fragile to me. If indeed SRAM engineered it with strength and durability that meets the marketing, kudos to that.
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Andrew Major
6 months, 2 weeks ago
“(Who am I kidding, I’ll drag it out long beyond practicality).”
Have you considered single-speeding?! (Hahahaha, sorry, it’s my shtick)
.
SRAM claims the GX cassettes wear as long as XO/XX with T-Type. I’m skeptical but have no way to prove/disprove that claim. After a couple years in the shop I’ll have a better sense. Certainly I’ll follow up if I see bent teeth/cogs on GX T-Type cassettes but this one has been faultless to date.
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turboshart
6 months, 2 weeks ago
I bought into the AXS (non T-Type) fairy tale a couple bikes ago and while it wasn't mind blowing, I was happy to never have to mess with barrel adjusters and cable tension ever again. Fast forward to a few weeks ago where my 10-month-old GX AXS derailleur on my Arrival wouldn't shift into my highest gear and was really struggling to shift properly to the mid cogs in my cassette, regardless of micro-adjustments or setting limit screws. Ended up filing a warranty claim w/ SRAM and went back to a cable-actuated XO1 drivetrain and I have never been happier. My bike is quieter (clutch strength on AXS is garbage), a little lighter, shifting feels crisp and tactile, and most importantly it shifts perfectly. If I manage to get a replacement AXS derailleur through warranty it's going up for sale.
On a slight tangent, any thoughts yet on running your A170 as a mullet? I know you wrote an article on the new UDH rear triangle but I don't recall you running it with a small wheel. Would be curious to hear how much it changes the ride.
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Andrew Major
6 months, 2 weeks ago
"On a slight tangent, any thoughts yet on running your A170 as a mullet?"
I would have been beyond keen to ride the A170 as a mullet, but being SB-157 none of my own wheels work and We Are One has rightly already committed a lot of resources to my Arrival project (Arrival A152 bike, A130/A170 links, extra fork, two extra shocks) so as you see it in this article is where it ends.
The bike is actually back to stock drivetrain and has been returned to HQ, so my A170 review/wrap-up will be a long soon.
I'll say, generally, that I'm all in on mullets on every bike. It takes a level of commitment on the hardtails (both the Enigma frame I'm reviewing and my own Marinster Truck run 27" rear wheels now) as without the benefits of rear suspension the angle of attack does mean the wheel is more likely to hang up or get bucked. Once I learned to push through that on the hardtail it was nothing but better turning (I feel like I turn like a boss on a mullet versus a dual 29") and less rear tire-to-butt contact (I'm only 5'9") in the steeps.
Any full-suspension bike I'd be buying myself for any application would be a mullet. Same with any hardtail other than an XC race bike.
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turboshart
6 months, 2 weeks ago
Right on, thanks Andrew. I mostly made that comment because I'm eagerly waiting for my rear UDH triangle and 27.5 Triad hoop to Arrive (ha get it) and needed some validation of poorly thought out purchases haha
Mullets seem to be all the rage with the cool kids these days (for all the reasons you have already mentioned) so I figured it's time to give it a shot. Cheers!
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Mammal
6 months, 2 weeks ago
I just went mullet with the Capra I bought this season, after a full 29er on my last bike. I'm still very used to 27.5 wheels, as that's what my current DH bike and hardtail run front and back, but I'm really liking the 29/27 mullet as I get more and more used to it. It lacks a bit of straight-line 29er speed in the rough, but everything else has been a plus (cornering, steeps, rear wheel line-changes, jumps, wheelie drops, stiffness...).
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Andrew Major
6 months, 2 weeks ago
Straight line chunk-a-chunk-a-chunking I miss the 29’er rear wheel. There’s always a trade-off I guess.
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XXX_er
6 months, 2 weeks ago
I went from a 29/29 to a mullet, IME the mullet goes around corners much snappier in spite of having a more upright geo by a coupleof degree so I am definatley happy with a mullet, not really sure about the difference in rollover qualities cuz its a moped
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Andrew Major
6 months, 2 weeks ago
Mullets make so much sense on BroPeds. The stronger rear wheel, tighter tire bead tolerances, etc the way those wheels get slammed into the ground. But the 29’er up front is an endo-saver when the weight of that mid motor starts coming up and forward on steep roll-ins.
Getting ahead of my review, but if you’re at all insert curious, as much as the e-marketing is dumb, the new CushCore eMTB inserts are a notable ride quality improvement over the Pro while still being run-flat friendly and offering tons of straight line protection.
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Tadpoledancer
6 months, 2 weeks ago
In principle I fully agree with what you’re saying in this article. For myself I’m really keen to try it out, even though I know I don’t need it.
A part of mountain biking for me is nerding about the gear, and T-type seems to be the first component in a pretty long while that offers some actual change in a sea of marginal gains.
But idk, maybe I’m just blinded by the marketing machine.
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Andrew Major
6 months, 2 weeks ago
I agree with this. AXS is/was excellent but it’s just top-end Eagle without cables. Transmission is impressively different, even if actual on-trail-experience gains will vary from questionable to marginal to it’s nice.
It’s not magical :)
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Alex D
6 months, 2 weeks ago
So many conflicting feelings. It's a real improvement in performance, but very expensive and, as you say, totally soulless. I'm far more excited about CUES even as I accept the inevitability that Transmission will be on my next bike. There's some sadness in what feels like the end of a mechanical era for which I have deep affinity. I have derailleurs from the 70s on a shelf just for the feelings they evoke.
The question might be moot for me. My current bike is exactly what I want it to be and doesn't support UDH, so I'm grasping for reasons why I'd have a next bike at all. We've reached stability in geometry, the frames aren't getting any lighter, and widespread adoption of headset cable routing stupidity seems just as inevitable as electronic shifting. I think I'll be on the sidelines for years yet.
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Andrew Major
6 months, 2 weeks ago
“It's a real improvement in performance, but very expensive and, as you say, totally soulless.”
Yeah.
“I accept the inevitability that Transmission…”
Or, at least for most folks, the Di2 variety will also be an option soon enough.
I’ve had pushback from the ‘Deore OR T-Type’ argument I make. But it seems to me that a few seekers aside, higher end bikes will be wireless, lower end bikes will be cable and the middle ground will become increasingly rare.
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Velocipedestrian
6 months, 2 weeks ago
And the nerds will continue to build up frames with their preferences.
My next drivetrain will be Linkglide.
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Vincent Edwards
6 months, 2 weeks ago
Thanks for sharing your thoughts Andrew - I can think of nobody I would trust more for an unbiased opinion.
_
I wonder if that .2mm precision you mention means that a cable version may not be forthcoming? (At least not one using the exact same cassette and chain…)
I’m still interested in separating the direct mount gains from the beep boop gains if possible, to gain a better understanding of the role each technology has.
Is it possible to run the new chainring, chain, and cassette on an older mechanical setup, or are there significant compatibility issues? (Like derailleur pulleys)
_
I’d like to try this group for a few months on the trail just to gain a better understanding of it, but as someone who is happy with my current bikes (one of which is SS) and my XT 11 and 12 speed drivetrains - I just cant justify it rn.
I can’t help but hear of Thanos from the Avengers films… ‘I am inevitable’ … Especially since it’s called ‘T’ type ;)
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Andrew Major
6 months, 2 weeks ago
Cheers!
The way I see it for a cable version is you have to have one limit screw. That sets the derailleur position relative to the 10t cog and then the precision of the system should be such that it can hit all 12-gears and be tuned with cable tension.
That said, without the ability to micro-adjust each gear, it may not be possible to get the precision-level that T-Type requires. Especially factoring on cable drag in housings etc.
I’ve heard - unrelated to my work at NSMB - talk of NX AXS T-Type and I imagine we’ll see that before anything cable. Actually if I was betting a cold can of Beere Beer I’d guess SRAM will be all wireless except for sh*tbox SX and old non-clutch legacy stuff like X-5 that has had its last revision. The fact is they can’t compete on quality, performance, or durability with Shimano (and even the upstarts - MicroShift, BOX) below the NX… or really below GX level once you also factor in value.
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[email protected]
6 months, 2 weeks ago
Love the article Andrew love all your work.
Hopefully I don't get a bunch of "hate".
Have read through 99% of comments. Only one person has said something positive ish about Transmission. So thought I would add my $0.02.
Have it and love it. Maybe it is only becuae it is my third year riding. Maybe becuase I am a tech geek. Maybe I do not have the years of expirence riding cable drivetrain. I do 99.99% of all my own serving, built wheels, complete lower fork service, replaced all my bearings. I have setup cable GX multiple times and honestly before upgrading to GX Transmission had no real complaints about my cable setup. Wanted under-load shifting.
I will preface got a deal on full GX drivetrain, sold a bunch of new spare cable GX parts so the cost of upgrade was low or lower. Not sure I would spend full retail. Buttttt:
- love wireless: smooth, crisp, easy to shift
- I shift 10x more while riding up and down and I do feel this has a benefit
- shifting under load is excellent: while riding up, approach a climb - shift. While riding down feel I need a little more speed - shift
- setup is a breeze. No fussy
- never broken a drivetrain comp in the past
- liked and never had an issue with large tooth jump from 42 to 52. Actually I kinda miss that ratio - 28/42
- takes sometime to get used to non-feedback of shifting
For me battery is a non issue. Have bin that I keep my helmet, gloves, shoes, rack lock etc in. Battery is just simple to remove throw in bin and not think about. Along with my bike comp!
Is it expensive? Yes. Do I feel $1600 is worth it? Maybe if you have the cash I would. I do not but remeber did not pay retail.
I feel the "not worth it" from a cost perspective might be warranted. But from a product performance and benefit perspective I do feel it is worth it.
Keep in mind newer rider, limited expirence with different brands and models of parts in general. But I do really enjoy my GX Transmission.
Price to value is a personal preference.
My $0.02 from someone that likes T-type.
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Cooper Quinn
6 months, 2 weeks ago
FWIW, you bring up an interesting point.
Fox has done research (as I'm sure SRAM has) that show the lighter the action of their dropper post levers, the more times per unit of riding people use it. I'm making the numbers up here, but if it takes 10lbs of force to activate, people use their dropper 10x per hour. If it takes 5lbs, they'll use it 25 times.
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[email protected]
6 months, 2 weeks ago
Thats an interesting study. I would say it makes sense for me with Transmission. Pushing a button to shift is almost effortless. Not that a mechanical shifter is difficult but it is not as easy/smooth/effortless as a POD controller.
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Raymond Epstein
6 months, 2 weeks ago
I think the Transmission stuff is fine. I've played with it a shop and pedaled a couple of bikes with it. I believe that it's market permeation will follow that of it's 1x forbearers from ten years ago. First, we'll see smaller aftermarket companies begin to hack into it (Wolf Tooth, etc.). Then the lower cost groups will arrive. Followed by some kind of response from Shimano and then the arrival of base level OEM groups. I'll hop on when a cable version (patents are already out there reputedly) arrives.
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Andrew Major
6 months, 2 weeks ago
It will be interesting to see if any of the upstart mountain bike drivetrain makers outside the duopoly - BOX, MicroShift, TRP - can make the jump to wireless and compete with ShiRAMano here. I’m sadly skeptical.
Campy is keeping competitive on the road side (how much of that is down to the name/legacy/non-bellybutton factor?) but look at how much money and time FSA has poured into their wireless group with no upside and there’s a cautionary tale there.
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DanL
6 months, 2 weeks ago
I suppose the other people that are worth having a look at, which was covered here, is Archer and their shifting solutions. Keep all the back end mechanisms and change up the shifter, remove most of the wires and have an infinitely tuneable ratio. I'm continually intrigued and I think that it's been through enough development to wean out any issues.
Similarly, I'm waiting on CUES to ship before I complete my new frame build but that may be a time off and I would like to get riding sooner rather than later. At least using an HG driver won't stop any change overs.
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Andrew Major
6 months, 2 weeks ago
Archer is in the same vein and cable-actuated hydraulic brakes. I love how it unlocks compatibility but at the end I’m going hydraulic or cable / wireless or cable.
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Cooper Quinn
6 months, 2 weeks ago
Yes. Archer is interesting, but its use cases are very niche and specific. For some people, its absolutely the right tool for the job, but as a general component/upgrade, no.
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Andrew Major
6 months, 2 weeks ago
The other day I was napkin drawing a commuter bike - the first one I’m not sure I could ride without a motor assist - a tandem bakfeits. Basically my Cetma cargo bike I had but with room for another pedaler. Originally I was putting them in front but from steering and weight distribution I’d put myself in the Center at which point I’d run either AXS or Archer shifting.
Steven Hambleton
6 months, 2 weeks ago
Well actually -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4qNV0xiHeAo
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hotlapz
6 months, 2 weeks ago
Andrew, what's your Arrival weigh in its current configuration?
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Andrew Major
6 months, 2 weeks ago
No idea, sorry. CushCore Trail, coil shock… not heavy but not lightweight?
I’ve returned it to stock and returned it to HQ so that’s not something I can follow up for you.
A170 review and wrap up is incoming.
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turboshart
6 months, 2 weeks ago
If it helps, my Arrival 170 (Zeb + SuperDeluxe Coil) clocks in at 16kg, pedals included.
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Andrew Major
6 months, 2 weeks ago
Inserts or no inserts and what rubber are you running? I was going to guess 36lbs, so definitely in the same pond. Thanks!
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turboshart
6 months, 2 weeks ago
No inserts, Big Betty Super Gravity on the rear, Assegai EXO+ MaxxGrip on the front.
Like you said, not a lightweight but also perfectly manageable. I don't mind pedaling a heavier bike if it means I can plow my way through stuff when I point it down the hill.
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NotMeAtAll
6 months, 2 weeks ago
I made my transmission with Sram 9s shifter, 11/50 cassete from ztto and 11s slx derailleur with garbarulk cage and 10s YBN chains.
Close ratios of new stuff grinds my gears since what I ride is pretty flat, or you go up and down a lot. Big jumps between gears make me shift less and less every time. And when I need to suddenly go up, 2 big swings of the shifter put me from 9th to 1st gear. Never broke a chain and I reuse master links like they will never wear off.
I'll be waiting for the gearbox revolution before I spend a freaking awesome fork money on a derailleur.
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Andrew Major
6 months, 2 weeks ago
I seriously doubt the gearbox revolution is ever coming to Meat-powered bicycles, sorry. Riders don’t want me-bikes that look like e-bikes and massive non-bike companies with huge budgets haven’t found ways to get the efficiency improvements called for.
I’d love to see a future with fewer gears. I’ll take wide-5 any day. How does 11/18/25/32/39t with nice chainline in every cog sound? Pick your chainring to optimize gearing for local terrain.
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Vik Banerjee
6 months, 2 weeks ago
"How does 11/18/25/32/39t with nice chainline in every cog sound? Pick your chainring to optimize gearing for local terrain."
If they don't find a way to charge a stupid amount for it I'm in. That said I'm happily shopping 2 or 3 generations back in geared drivetrains and they are almost giving that stuff away so it's hard to want to buy something else until forced to.
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Andrew Major
6 months, 2 weeks ago
Claire’s XO 9-speed shifter / Zee derailleur / XT cassette is all the drivetrain I need. Light action but positive.
I’m always balancing on the fence between talking about what folks are likely to buy on a bike/in a shop and talking about what I’d happily ride. 11-speed X0 is awesome - what value does that have to the average reader? Counter point, I love my friction-Thumbie XT M8130 setup on the Marinster Truck, but what value does that have to anyone? I write about it anyway.
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Vik Banerjee
6 months, 2 weeks ago
"Counter point, I love my friction-Thumbie XT M8130 setup on the Marinster Truck, but what value does that have to anyone? I write about it anyway."
I've got no plans to install a friction setup on my geared MTBs, but I'd happily read about that or some other weirdo MTB topic. So go for it!
More than once I've used some gear long enough to finally write a comprehensive review about it only to find the product is no longer made/sold. I've still written the review. Partially an ode to something I thought was great, partially as a public online journal, and partially for both people who might find the review and be looking at buying the item used/on clearance. Creative projects don't have to make sense to the wide world as long as they make sense to you.
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steelispossiblyreal
6 months, 2 weeks ago
please don't stop writing about all the friction fun!
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Niels van Kampenhout
6 months, 2 weeks ago
"I love my friction-Thumbie XT M8130 setup on the Marinster Truck, but what value does that have to anyone?"
Your LinkGlide and friction shifting articles are some of the most viewed on the site over the last 12 months.
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Andrew Major
6 months, 2 weeks ago
Woah!?!
That’s genuinely surprising. Thanks for the insight.
Kenny
6 months, 2 weeks ago
Sounds like a level of fitness I will never begin to comprehend. Haha
By my math, that cassette with a 28t ring is like running eagle with a 36t.
Kudos to you guys but I'm never going to be at a point where I have the horsepower to make that work for sea to sky riding.
Even aside from my mediocre fitness though, I'd argue anyone for whom that type of gearing is anywhere near optimal for sea to sky riding is an outlier.
Even elite athletes around here are barely running gearing like that, if at all? We're talking Jeff Kalman, Jesse Melamed level fitness, aka nearly superhuman.
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Andrew Major
6 months, 2 weeks ago
Not really. It’s ditching a little bit of low and high gear range.
An Eagle 12spd cassette is 10-12-14-16-18-21-24-28-32-36-42-52. Most bikes are shipping with 32t rings with that setup. Some 27” rigs with 34t rings! Some 29” rigs with 30t rings.
I mean, some bikes I see certainly folks are in the 52t all the time, but I treat that as a bailout gear (and encourage everyone to optimize their chainring to do the same). So, with 11-39t and optimizing the front ring we’re not exactly pushing single-speeding here.
I promise I don’t have Jesse’s fitness by half.
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Jerry Willows
6 months, 2 weeks ago
for Whistler climbing, you'll probably need a 42t or something. North Van has easy climbs and I'm never in my 1st or 2nd gear (29er with 32t).
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Cooper Quinn
6 months, 2 weeks ago
"North Van has easy climbs and I'm never in my 1st or 2nd gear"
Clearly I need to show you some routes, Jerry! Lets go for a pedal!
Jerry Willows
6 months, 2 weeks ago
@cooper.... I don't have a gravel bike and like to take the least path of resistance going up.
Andrew Major
6 months, 2 weeks ago
@Jerry Willows, your post gave me this urge to drop in and make 100% certain you know that you can ride a Specialized AND a rigid single-speed. You don't have to choose! The Fuse is rad!
Just throw on some sticky rubber and some tire inserts and add Shore-proper brakes. I'd go for a steel or aluminum rigid fork instead of carbon but certainly, it's to each their own. Stack is pretty short so get in there with the high-rise bar vibe.
#JerryWillowsHatesMyBike...
Cooper Quinn
6 months, 2 weeks ago
Sure. If you only pedal the easy climbs, they're easy.
roil
6 months, 2 weeks ago
how aggressive of a tire are you running in the rear?
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Andrew Major
6 months, 2 weeks ago
Me? Multi-speed right now I have a Super Trail Big Betty with CushCore Trail insert (2.6”). Single-speed it’s a Specialized Laughter (2.6”) with CushCore eMTB insert.
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roil
6 months, 2 weeks ago
I was asking @Kenny
I know you're all about low rolling resistance. I ordered my Specialized Laughter tire over the weekend!
Andrew Major
6 months, 2 weeks ago
@roil, enjoy!
Was on my Laughter this afternoon. My new setup with an i26 rim and the eMTB insert is rad in a straight line and leaned over.
steelispossiblyreal
6 months, 2 weeks ago
What SRAM 9s shifter are you using? I assume it's 1:1? That sounds like a killer wide range setup and I may have to try it...
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Andrew Major
6 months, 2 weeks ago
It’s a 2005 1:1 X0 shifter. It’s not wide range though, Zee short cage with an 11-36t cassette just with a 24t narrow-wide NSB ring. It’s an awesome drivetrain.
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Andy Eunson
6 months, 2 weeks ago
If "transmission" is so good, such a "game changer" , how is it that the XCO world champions in the elite men and women and under 23 men and women won on XTR mechanical?
I can’t comment on how well t type works because I haven’t tried it. Hell. I’ve seen only one bike with it on the trails so far this year. I have used DI2 on a cross bike and it was good but no better than the Dura Ace mechanical on my road bike. The big selling features for t type seem to be robustness and the ability to shift under power. Well I haven’t broken a rear derailleur in a really long time. I have bent hangers though so I’ll give SRAM that. But I haven’t bent them so badly that I couldn’t get out out the Park tool and fix it. And I shift under full power all the time on XT 12 speed. I change out the cable and housing about once a year. I’ll bet that takes less time for me to do that than the cumulative time it might take to remove and recharge or replace batteries. Not that it is difficult to charge stuff.
SRAM seem to have an odd business strategy. Make really good high end product but shitty low end. It would seem to me that there is a much larger market for less costly stuff. Shimano seems to own that end of the market. I’ve always thought that a manufacturer of components made their bread and butter from OEM.
I think lots of folks get a bit tired of manufacturers hyperbole marketing but we understand it’s just sales. It’s the reviewers that get on board with it. I’m thinking of certain writers south of the equator that used the term "game changer" that makes me recoil mightily. The fact is that it’s pretty hard to get truly bad components these days. Mid level and up is really really good.
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Perry Schebel
6 months, 2 weeks ago
did a quick google for giggles - on scale weight of the xtr mech: 243g. XX transmission: 463g (!). methinks a gram pinching xc racer might raise an eyebrow at a 1/2 pound heavier derailleur. this is progress?
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Andrew Major
6 months, 2 weeks ago
And a Zee short cage derailleur is ~ 270 grams, thus the conversation forever loops back to the best (value, durability, shift quality, longevity) derailleur Shimano has ever made for any application*. At least, I think that's how the conversation usually goes.
*Other than applications that require 10/11-to-51/52t 1x gearing spreads.
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Perry Schebel
6 months, 2 weeks ago
the 11 spd xt mid-cage is my favorite shifty device (w/ sram 10-42). cheap/light/durable - pick all 3, mr bontrager.
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Jerry Willows
6 months, 2 weeks ago
industry is making it so bikes get heavier so the jump to eeb's isn't as bad.
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Ryan Walters
6 months, 2 weeks ago
Ha! This is the comment of the day!
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Cam McRae
6 months, 2 weeks ago
Industry is also responsible for contrails, JFK's assassination, and the covids.
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Cooper Quinn
6 months, 2 weeks ago
"methinks a gram pinching xc racer might raise an eyebrow at a 1/2 pound heavier derailleur"
[Nino has entered the chat]
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roil
6 months, 2 weeks ago
"SRAM seem to have an odd business strategy. Make really good high end product but shitty low end. It would seem to me that there is a much larger market for less costly stuff. Shimano seems to own that end of the market. I’ve always thought that a manufacturer of components made their bread and butter from OEM. "
The sh*tty low end sets the price floor so they can justify the high prices on top end products. They are the biggest OEM supplier and they use these artificial tiers to charge more for decent kit. Bike brands play along because it allows them to use the same strategy for selling multiple tiers of their complete bikes.
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finbarr
6 months, 2 weeks ago
The Trek prices are actually quite reasonable. I was looking at Transition's pricing, and my eyes bulged out of my skull to see their cheapest models with Transmission, which for current model year, is over $11k (for the spire). At $9k (the Trek Fuel EX price), I could justify buying that during the EOY sales. At $11k, I'd simultaneously be buying a divorce.
Regarding Rocky Mountain- I think they have to be coming out with Transmission equipped bikes for MY '24. They moved all of their bike model names to have "Shimano" in the name, implying they need to distinguish between Shimano and non-Shimano builds, and their newest model, the Blizzard eMTB, comes with NX.
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Duncan Wright
6 months, 2 weeks ago
I'm a little ashamed to say that every time I take a lap on my friend's XO T-type equipped Sentinel, I like it a little bit more. That said, my current GX AXS and X01 Eagle drivetrains are still performing perfectly, and I am much more excited to move on to 12 speed mechanical Apex XPLR on my gravel bike with some of my spending money, not to mention trying Berd Spokes, Hope brakes, or the Wolftooth dropper post. I suspect I won't be transitioning to transmission until they twist my arm.
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Andrew Major
6 months, 2 weeks ago
All my AXS-upped friends' journeys to T-Type are going differently but most of them seem to be getting there sooner than they thought. At least partially. Some people do seem to prefer a version of the old remote after legitimately trying both, but others are buying the new remote as an upgrade. Then if you do break an AXS derailleur and you're buying one anyway, and your frame is UDH... you know.
______
Notes about Berd spokes, but with the caveat that I haven't built any myself - I just know multiple mechanics who have. If you don't build your own wheels, expect to pay ~3x more for a wheel build both from new (unless you buy complete from Berd) and if you need to have a fresh rim laced. The process also takes multiple days as the wheels need to be tensioned multiple times.
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Cooper Quinn
6 months, 2 weeks ago
I'm coming to the conclusion that I'm just not a pod shifter guy. I don't hate it, its totally fine and not something I'd pay extra to change, but given the choice of either I'm going with the second iteration of AXS shifters.
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Andrew Major
6 months, 2 weeks ago
I mean, you are or you aren’t. But it seems most folks who genuinely try both options end up preferring the pod.
I’m still more than a little surprised SRAM doesn’t have ‘AXS GripShift’ that’s just a button and battery integrated into each (proprietary) lock-on grip clamp with a whole range of SRAM grip blanks named after long time athletes.
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Cooper Quinn
6 months, 2 weeks ago
The shifter you're looking for.
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Cam McRae
6 months, 2 weeks ago
Good find Coop. I actually like the ergonomics there.
And it can probably swipe right for you as well.
Cooper Quinn
6 months, 2 weeks ago
Debated gettin Zirbel for my Arrival but then decided I didn't want to fuck around with trying to hid a blip box somewhere and pulled the plug.
Andrew Major
6 months, 2 weeks ago
@Cooper, I was thinking the SRAM 'AXS GripShift' wouldn't need a Blip Box as everything would be housed in the grip locking clamp - battery and electronics. So, it would actually look a bit like a paired-down GripShift shifter, only it would have a push button rather than a twist action, and of course no barrel adjuster.
JT
6 months, 2 weeks ago
"And the cutting edge is dulling, too many people to plow through, Just keep your f**king distance, and it can't include you" Not oft I cite Bad Religion but... If anything this reenforces my thinking that an Archer shifter set up is still best in terms of economics for wireless shifting. I am getting more curious about some of the alternative drivetrains out in the world. Had hopes SunRace would bring something to the table more than just cassettes, but they seem to be walking away from their performance shifter and derailleur dev. TRP has some interesting things happening. It'll be interesting to see if any of the Ali drivetrains start showing up on price point bikes. Not saying I don't appreciate what SRAM has done, at least on the derailleur side of things, it's just not my cuppa.
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Cooper Quinn
6 months, 2 weeks ago
Uncle Dave and I have reviewed the Archer setup. You'll have to find it yourself though because I'm on my phone.
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JT
6 months, 2 weeks ago
Oh I know. Pretty sure I commented on that piece as well.
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Cooper Quinn
6 months, 2 weeks ago
Ha, well there ya go! It was a while ago now. I wonder if they have any hardware updates coming.
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Mountain-Cycle-Shawn
6 months, 1 week ago
My God, that was a poorly written article. I mean, it was painful to read and it offered absolutely zero information!
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Andrew Major
6 months, 1 week ago
Constructive feedback is always welcome Shawn. What information did you feel was missing from this, or the linked introductory article on T-Type?
There’s been a lot of different stuff written about T-Type on various sites. What questions do you have that you’d like answered?
Always happy to help or answer questions to the best of my ability. I will note that most of my stuff reads similarly, so if you don’t enjoy it from an entertainment perspective it’s easy to skip anything with my name in the byline.
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